Agenda item

Police and Crime Commissioner for Gloucestershire

Martin Surl (60 minutes maximum)

Minutes:

The Chairman introduced the item which he had himself added to the work plan.  He welcomed Martin Surl, the Police and Crime Commissioner for Gloucestershire and explained that in accordance with the council’s witness charter, questions had been submitted in advance of the meeting.  Martin Surl had not submitted written responses, instead preferring to provide verbal responses (see table below).

 

1.

Question from Councillor McCloskey

 

In your recent interview with the Echo you said “It’s my job to represent the public”. How do you keep in touch with Gloucestershire residents and Cheltenham residents in particular?

 

 

I communicate with the 600,000 people in Gloucestershire and 116,000 in Cheltenham in a range of ways.  I maintain a high media profile, I’m always happy to provide a comment.  I have a neighbourhood engagement vehicle (NEV) which travels around the county and was most recently used to consult Cheltenham residents on the use of Automatic Number Plate Recognition cameras in the town.  I am active on social media and I meet with various groups on a regular basis.

2.

Question from Councillor McCloskey

 

Of the 6 priorities outlined in the Police and Crime Plan, which do you consider are making good progress and which would you wish to develop more? Please give reasons for your answer.

 

 

The plan is almost a carbon copy of my manifesto, though I did add a safer cyber priority in light of what I felt to be an emerging issue.  All priorities are linked and provide a framework for the Police to work within.  I have been in post for almost 3 years and I feel that the plan is becoming embedded. 

3.

Question from Councillor McCloskey

 

What partnership working is taking place with the Health and Wellbeing Board in relation to drug use and alcohol use? How is this work improving the situation in Cheltenham?

 

 

I do have a place on the Health and Wellbeing Board but I am not the Chair.  Every organisation that is represented has been tasked with agreeing what their organisations could do to support the alcohol agenda.  Local councils are also being encouraged to get involved. 

4.

Question from Councillor McCloskey

 

What reduction in front line staff can the residents of Cheltenham expect, and what assurance can you give that there will be no loss of service to the public?

 

 

The last few years had been difficult, financially, for the constabulary, having lost £18m from their budget.  Government said that it would take 2.5 years to balance the books but further cuts were expected and estimated at £16m and Cheltenham would have to take its share.  That being said, the finances are in a relatively strong position and preparations were being made for the additional cuts.  A new plan for policing the county as one, rather than as four towns would soon be in place and would prevent policing becoming so small it was ineffective.  I have read reports that numbers of officers in Cheltenham have reduced from 8 to 3 but I do not recognise either of these numbers.

Three stations would be retained in Cheltenham; Lansdown Road, Municipal Office reception (though full details were yet to be finalised) and Hesters Way.  He urged members not to be solely concerned about frontline police and assured members that specialist resources were in place which could be called upon when required i.e. child protection, forensics, etc. 

5.

Question from Councillor Harman

 

The Borough Council approved the night time levy and you gave an assurance that the police element would be used in Cheltenham. Can you detail how the money is being spent and the outcomes that have been achieved?

 

 

The legislation relating to the late night levy could undoubtedly be refined but the decision was made that, in Cheltenham, the levy would be used to reduce demand rather than put more police on the streets. 

 

Purple Flag (£31k) – to appoint a Night-Time Economy coordinator that will secure and maintain Purple Flag status for the town centre, which was equivalent to a Blue Flag for beaches.

 

St Pauls streetwatch (£1k)

A joint project between local residents, university students and the police.  Operating bi-weekly volunteer patrols to address issues of antisocial behaviour (nuisance, personal and environmental), and discourage and prevent crime.  Funding has been provided for radios and lollipops.

 

Hub Bistro (£6k)

Feasability study to investigate the possibility of developing an alcohol-free venue in Cheltenham town centre that would provide a quality late night alternative to the current alcohol-centred late night economy.  

 

I also used some of my personal budget to fund a body camera for the taxis marshal in Cheltenham.

 

Ultimately, it is for the council to decide what kind of night time economy it wants for the town as the licensing authority, which the Police can then help monitor and manage. 

6.

Question from Councillor Payne

 

The introduction of the position of Police and Crime Commissioner was seen in many quarters as controversial and unnecessary. How do you justify the post, and in particular what added value does the post bring to the Police?

 

 

I do not feel it necessary to justify my post as the role has been endorsed by Government, I was duly elected by the people of Gloucestershire and I have been in post for almost 3 years now.  I meet with the Chief Constable on a weekly basis and challenge all financial decisions.  Lansdown Road is not fit for purpose and instead due to my intervention will be replaced.  The cost of the new custody block was reduced from £13.9m to £12.4m due to my intervention.  The Police and Crime Panel is being delivered with over 185 voluntary and community organisations.

7.

Question from Councillor Payne

 

It has been reported that 30,000 people have been subjected to identity theft in the first three months of this year, in addition the government has said recently that Cyber-attacks on big British businesses are almost inevitable. Nine out of ten large companies suffered a security breach last year. How is your initiative on cyber-crime going to address this issue, and what metric will you use to assess the effectiveness of the programme?

 

 

Adding safer cyber to the Police and Crime Plan was a difficult decision given that this was a new area of work and £18m had been cut from the budget and as such half of the council tax revenue had been used to find it.  The Gloucestershire Safer Cyber Forum was set up and allowed for businesses to report attacks anonymously so as to protect their reputation.  Gloucestershire was in the top 10 areas in the country for detecting and preventing cyber crime.  School children, the elderly and sole traders were also educated on how to stay safe online. 

Whilst this is a big problem, I feel that there is a lot we can be doing locally. 

8.

Question from Councillor Payne

 

What are you doing to address the issue of officers physical fitness to perform their duties?

 

 

Officers are required to pass a standard fitness test every two years and if not, they have a limited time to address the problem, before being removed from action.  This would likely become more of an issue now that the retirement age had been raised to 60 years. 

9.

Question from Councillor Payne

 

The ‘bobby on the beat’ was seen by many as a reassuring sign, today it would appear that most police officers and PCSO’s patrol in vehicles, and many minor incidents are simply recorded. How are you tackling the perception held by many people that they are at risk from crime?

 

 

PCSOs should be walking for most of their shifts.  A small number of officers were still being recruited and would be required to undertake 400 hours of foot patrol in their first years in the role.  I feel it is more reassuring to the public that the Police are where they are needed, when they are needed, rather than walking around aimlessly.  I’d suggest that regular police patrols could even have the opposite effect and make people feel as though there was an increased risk of crime rather than making them feel safer. 

In response to a supplementary question about special constables the P&CC said that they had large role to play in the future of policing and he saw the numbers increasing to make up for job losses.  He also saw roles such as Street Pastors as important, commenting that they provided support that the Police did not have the resources to do.    

10.

Question from Councillor Ryder

 

With police presence being seen less on our local streets, PCSOs have taken up this role and have built up a good community rapport. With the threat of cuts being made within your authority, what reassurance can you offer to the public of Cheltenham, we will not lose the count of PCSOs that we have at this present time?

 

 

PCSOs are the face of policing on the streets and are still an important part of the plan.  I believe PCSOs are more effective in smaller commmunities, where they can get to know local people, make contact with local Schools, etc.  Whilst I can’t see the number of PCSOs increasing, there certainly won’t be cuts disproportionate to any other cuts. 

11.

Question from Councillor Ryder

 

What are your thoughts on 'Community Policing' by the general public, which has been reported to be taking place in certain areas across Britain.  Would you class this as a 'Help or a Hindrance' to the force?

 

 

I believe that communities taking an interest in policing of their local area is useful and invaluable to the Police but I do not support the vigilante approach. 

12.

Question from Councillor Ryder

 

It is alleged that children/teenagers are being used to pick pocket, shoplift and take part in criminal operations; here in Cheltenham it was reported of a serious incident where a youth was involved with an older perpetrator to enter dwellings with intent to steal. How would you/do you approach this issue, young offenders who are caught, are they convicted or due to budget restraints,  just have  a warning?

 

 

A youth that is being used as an accomplice by an adult to commit crime is at the very least, being neglected and at the extreme, being abused and convicting them for their part could cause more problems in the long term than it addressed in the short term.  It was likely that these youths would be cautioned and any cautions were monitored by the CPS.  Ultimately any child in these circumstances would need support from various agencies.  I would note that criminality in youths is reducing across the county.

13.

Question from Councillor Mason

 

How are the problems relating to drug and alcohol abuse in the town centre going to be tackled over the next 5 years?  I am particularly, but not exclusively interested in the effect on our youth.

 

 

CBC has to decide what it wants from the night time economy and then, with Licensing, the Police would help to monitor and manage.

14.

Question from Councillor Mason

 

Given the role Montpellier plays in attracting visitors to Cheltenham and the number of incidents relating to vandalism, can I have your views on the merits of installing a CCTV camera that covers Montpellier Street?

 

 

CCTV was provided by CBC and if CBC wanted to increase the number of cameras in the town, then the Police would support them.  There were 30 reported incidents of vandalism in the Montpellier area in the last 12 months and for these 30 incidents there had been 100% detection rate.  Bulletins which included CCTV images of suspects were circulated by the Police in some instances.

 

Members raised further questions and Martin Surl provided the following responses;

 

·         He was not able to comment on the exact number of Officers in Cheltenham for security reasons but could advise the committee that there were 1184 in the entire county.  This number would reduce in preparation for the additional spending cuts and numbers would vary from shift to shift and to meet demand. 

·         He received quarterly progress reports on each of the projects that had been funded by the Late Night Levy and they were assessed against the criteria of each bid.  The Hub Bistro project was only at the scoping stage at the moment and should it come to fruition, he did not envisage that public money would be used to support it.  Something similar had been set up in Gloucester some two years ago and this was set to become self-funding. 

·         The best place for any PCSO to be was on their own patch but it was no longer possible to have stations in every area.  As of the 23 July all Police Officers and PCSOs would be issued with Galaxy 3’s which included 85% of the applications required.  This would release a lot of Police Officer and PCSO time, negating the need for them to return to the station and would be equivalent to 60-70 officers in time.  Officers were also being encouraged to take any breaks whilst out and about rather than returning to the stations. 

·         The constabulary had been prevented from signing a lease with the council because despite only wanting a small room in the building in Oakely, the lease included liability to repair and maintain the entire building.  With the Municipal Office reception going ahead, an Oakley base was no longer such a priority, but that was not to say that if something similar to Charlton Kings came up in Oakley, that it wouldn’t be considered.

·         There was a PCSO based in the All Saints Academy and this was something that could be replicated in other schools but this was a decision for the Chief Officer.  He suggested that every school and nursing home should know their PCSO.

 

The Chairman thanked the Police and Crime Commissioner for his attendance and asked if there was anything that the council could do make policing the town easier.  The Police and Crime Commissioner responded by asking that the authority be clear about what it wanted from its night time economy and to, not only hold the Police to account when there was an issue, but praise them when something went well. 

 

The committee paused the meeting at 19:55pm.