Agenda item

Police and Crime Commissioner

Martin Surl, Police and Crime Commissioner

Minutes:

The Chairman welcomed the Police and Crime Commissioner (P&CC) and asked that, before providing verbal responses to the questions which had been submitted by members of the committee, (see table below) the P&CC give a brief overview.  

 

Whilst he had been happy to accept the invitation by the committee, in the spirit of co-operation, he reminded members that it was the role of the Police and Crime Panel to scrutinise him in his role as P&CC.  Despite the shortcomings reported in the press and without trying to make any attempt to belittle the child protection issues that had been raised, he wanted to assure members that there were also many successes.  This was not to say that the force were not under monumental pressure, having lost £30m of funding and over 200 officers, reducing numbers from 1300 to 1053.  The Chancellors announcement that funding would remain at the same level equated to, for Gloucestershire, a £4.2m shortfall if the force maintained the current level of officers (1058) and a £6.5m shortfall if the P&CC kept to his commitment to increase officer numbers to 1100.  This at a time when crime was increasing and growing in complexity.  His Police and Crime Plan, identical to his manifesto, set out what he aimed to achieve, during this current 4 year term, his second after his re-election in 2016 and this plan acknowledged the importance of neighbourhood policing and this included the need for improved Neighbourhood Watch schemes.  

 

1.

Question from Councillor Payne

 

In light of the recent heightened terrorist threat, could you explain how the £1 million you allocate to community projects contributes to public safety.  Have you considered to option of redistributing this money to combating the terrorist threat?

 

The £1m allocation equated to only 1% of the P&CCs overall budget and was set up after he was first elected in 2012.  He assured members that the counter terrorism network was very well funded by the Government and suggested that what was severely lacking was neighbourhood policing, which resulted in the loss of contact with communities and the intelligence that came with these community links, as well as the reduction in crime.  The funding had supported over 300 successful projects across the county, including the Street Pastors project in Cheltenham and he highlighted that these projects had been able to draw in funding from other areas.  He felt that these projects represented his most successful achievements.  

2.

Question from Councillor Payne

 

I take the view that a good working relationship between the local police and councillors benefits the whole community. At a recent meeting with your deputy, he stated that Neighbourhood Policing had significantly improved. There appears to be little or no evidence to support that statement. Could you please give your assessment of the current state of Neighbourhood Policing?

 

Crime rates in Cheltenham were rising, meaning increasing pressure on ever reducing resources and funding.  The Constabulary were committed to neighbourhood policing and were in the process of reintroducing neighbourhood teams but this required the relocation of officers and would take time.  He was confident that these changes would have been implemented by the Autumn and felt that the public understood the challenges facing the constabulary.   

3.

Question from Councillor Baker

 

How many full time front line police officers are there in Cheltenham, how has this number changed in the last 5 years, is the Cheltenham contingent up to compliment?

He was not able to give an exact figure as all response vehicles now operated from Bamfurlong, covering Cheltenham and Gloucester and therefore responded to demand and whilst he could ask the Chief Constable for a figure, this would not necessarily be representative of the true figure as this would not include firearms officers, etc.  

4.

Question from Councillor Baker

 

How do you envisage the number of front line officers in Cheltenham changing in the next 5 years? Do you believe we have enough front line officers?

Staff costs equated to 80% of his budget, with the rest being spent on buildings, vehicles, insurance, petrol, etc.  Crime was on the rise, housing numbers would be increasing and both at a time when police numbers and funding were reducing and he was unsure as to how these issues could be reconciled. 

5.

Question from Councillor Baker

 

I believe that police officers who know their areas, engage with local people of all age groups and ethnicity help build up trust and therefore help the police do their job, do you agree and if so what is being done to improve community policing in our town?

 

As he had already explained, the reintroduction of neighbourhood teams was a priority but this would take some time to organise.   

6.

Question from Councillor Baker

 

What percentage of crimes are solved? Is crime reducing?

 

As he had mentioned, crime was increasing and not only in terms of volume but in terms of complexity.   

7.

Question from Councillor Baker

 

What are your main concerns which will impact upon your ability to maintain law and order in our town and reduce incidents of crime?

 

He had already covered this in previous responses.

8.

Question from Councillor Baker

 

Is the use of police horses relevant in 2017, how much is spent on this resource?

 

The 12-18 month trial had cost £194k and was proving very effective, even if it did evoke mixed feelings with the public.  The University of Oxford had evaluated the benefits and had shown that levels of public engagement with officers was six times higher when on horseback compared to those in vehicles.  He noted that the running costs of this resource would be much lower than the initial set-up costs, which had included a second-hand horse box for £60k, the cost of a fully equipped vehicle.  Ultimately the Chief Constable would make the final decision but a deal with South Wales, who had 8 horses, could see Gloucestershire move to 4 and combined would in effect be a unit (of 12).  

9.

Question from Councillor Harman

 

Will the Police and Crime Commissioner seek to use the Powers contained in the Police and Criminal Justice Act 1994 to move on Travelers from locations such as Arle Court Park and Ride?

 

Operational decisions were for the Chief Constable and not the P&CC.  he would ask that the Chief Constable respond directly to Councillor Harman.

 10.

Question from Councillor McCloskey

 

A few weeks ago, I was unable to contact the police on the 101 number despite hanging on for more than half an hour. The reason for my call was urgent although not requiring a 999 response. I resorted to calling the OPCC who arranged for the police to call me. Subsequently I made an official complaint to the Constabulary. In a telephone conversation with the temporary Chief Inspector in charge of the Control Room, I proposed changes to the automated "system busy" message which were accepted. Last week, I was contacted by a member of the public who held on for one hour before giving up. How difficult is it to change a simple automated message? The 101 number is the main point of contact with the police now that police stations and officers are thin on the ground. How can the police gain local intelligence without an effective 101 service? The public deserve better.

 

It was important to note that the 101 service was one of the only 24hr services remaining in Gloucestershire.  He reported that last week 1311 ‘999’ calls had been received with an average waiting time of 16 seconds, compared to 10 seconds the week prior.  4361 calls had been received to the 101 service and had an average waiting time of 2 minutes and 20 seconds compared to 1 minute and 24 seconds the week before.  The maximum waiting time was 35 minutes and he accepted that the 101 service was not perfect.  He explained that there had been a 20% increase in the number of calls to this service since 2014, currently averaging 23,000 calls a month, compared to 6500 ‘999’ calls.  In addition to this, calls were taking longer, with call handlers attempting to resolve the issue over the phone, without the need to send an officer.  He stressed that the ‘999’ service took precedent and the service, as it stood at the moment, could not be diverted, or a recorded message given.  This was currently under review and ten new call handlers were in the process of being recruited. 

 

The P&CC gave the following responses to member questions: 

 

  • The issue of gangs coming from major cities and establishing drug networks was a major issue for Gloucestershire, with Cheltenham equally affected than Gloucester.  The police relied on intelligence from CBH and cyber intelligence but were successfully tackling the issue and had convicted a number of people.  It was noted that some offenders were just children and cases in Rotherham and other areas, had highlighted the need to find a balance between offenders and victims.  
  • His decision to appoint a temporary Chief Constable was based on the fact that the entire top team at the Constabulary were due to leave and it had been his judgement that a temporary appointment would offer immediate stability.  The Government wanted P&CCs to look at the fire service and had given three options; the P&CC take governance of the fire service; appoint a Chief Officer above the Chief Fire Officer and Chief Police Officer or: be given a place on the GCC Cabinet. The P&CC commented that he was open minded about the fire service and that the only reason he had been granted £100k to look at the issue was because GCC had refused to discuss the matter with him.  
  • Following the HMIC report, the P&CC had asked the Chief Constable to look into why case reviews had been deemed inadequate, but this would take time.  He noted that whist the constabulary had had its funding cut by 25%, the HMIC had had their funding significantly increased which he felt resulted in the HMIC having the resources necessary to look things in more detail.  
  • The criticism levelled at the constabulary, by HMIC, regarding children in custody related not to the numbers of children in custody, which was low, but instead related to suitable accommodation being sought.  The P&C noted that there was no such accommodation available in Cheltenham.
  • There was not a week in which rapes or sexual assaults were reported across the County, though not all of these would be reported in the press.  Members should not feel alarmed however, as Gloucestershire remained one of the safest places to live in the country.  
  • The P&CC was willing to attend resident association meetings and invited members to email him with any such requests but reminded them that he was one person, and should therefore not be offended if he isn’t able to accept.  

The Chairman thanked the P&CC for his time and honesty and hoped that he would accept a further invitation in the future.